The truth that the woman is so-called shows that she had particular interest in Susanna

Brand new genealogists most of the think about it high you to definitely Nicholas’ wife Clementia are incorporated right here as the, below regular items, she would not be mentioned. When Susanna at the particular after day got off to a different guardian, the new spouse of these protector wasn’t stated.

This would indicate that Queen John spent a bit there and the potential for an amorous liaison that have Clementia exists

Here are some we have found a principle complex of the specific eminent genealogists, but it is reasonable to say that the brand new conclusions try hotly contested!

So it idea leads to a wonderful and you can interested ‘twist’ throughout the tale of Joanna, which may appeal fans out of HBD!

At first glance, there would be absolutely nothing to suggest one union amongst the hostage, Susanna of Wales and you may Clementia, partner away from Nicholas de- Verdun. But not, sensation of specific genealogists having overseas hostages, including youths, could have been that they was in fact commonly put having household members, if any was available.

Bouncing toward 1236, there is an admission throughout the Tewkesbury annals and therefore relates to Joanna’s mom as “Queen Clemencie!” It checks out to some extent:

Today, we know that mother out of Joanna are titled Clementia (Clemence?

In this situation new monk is actually obviously indulging inside gothic legalism. Prior to her demise, Joanna is legitimised because of the Pope. On the basis of you to definitely legitimisation, the latest Tewksbury monk evidently got it abreast of himself to elevate Joanna’s mommy toward status away from King, as if their unique mommy ended up being Queen John’s spouse! It is a fact however, you to definitely Queen John and you may Clementia was basically never partnered. From the speaking about Joanna’s mom since the “Queen” Clementia, the monk which recorded Joanna’s dying is actually demonstrating his significant regard to own Joanna, yet not trying to change the genuine activities.

When it comes to title away from Clementia de- Verdun, Paget means that she is actually this new child of Roger de- Dauntsey, of Wiltshire. One genealogist considers they significant that Clementia acclaimed out-of Wiltshire since he’s realized that Queen John had an effective attachment so you can that county, it as being the family out-of their best partners, the new Longespee, ilies and you can Geoffrey Fitz Peter.

Genealogists have discovered that title ‘Clementia’ is actually very uncommon certainly one of English noblewomen on the period. In a single desk out-of ladies labels which was amassed, there have been merely a couple of events of your own title “Clementia” away from a maximum of 1407 feamales in the fresh new attempt! That anybody named Clementia might possibly be with the Susanna is known as extreme.

Therefore! Evidence try effective, yet not conclusive, one from inside the 1228, Susanna, due to the fact a https://brightwomen.net/no/norske-kvinner/ beneficial hostage, gotten off to the latest care of their maternal grandma, now spouse away from Nicholas de- Verdun!!

The fresh new Scottish genealogists of one’s MacDuffs’ keep one to Susanna ferch Llywelyn came to be 1214 in Gwynnedd, Wales and you can passed away c. 1259 inside the Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland. She partnered Malcolm MacDuff, Earl out-of Fife into the 1230 together with one or two pupils: Sir Colbran MacDuff, Earl regarding Fife, born 1245, passed away 1270 and MacDuff MacDuff born 1247.

Naturally, you’ll find avoid arguments to all this supposition! King John got of numerous mistresses and perhaps possibly 7 illegitimate college students. Mom from Joanna could have been produced circa 1172 and you may marriageable circa 1184. Joanna by herself was created circa 1191 (14 yrs old during their unique wedding to Llywelyn). Rohese, the understood legitimate child out-of Nicholas de Verdun and his awesome spouse Clementia was given birth to circa 1210-1213. In the event that Clementia try mom of Joanna, she’d come in her later 30’s, early 40’s whenever giving birth to Rohese! Perhaps not hopeless, particular say, but not very likely.